Comment: Ali Azmat and lawyer Azhar Siddique’s discussion on Pakistani music is an unwarranted mess

The start of a new decade brought with it so many hopes of change and enlightenment. However, despite much efforts it is disappointing to say that by the end of 2021, we are still watching interviews where celebrities have foot in the mouth moments. From casual body shaming, matters of consent, insensitive remarks on personal life, cyber bullying and male entitlement, there are several incidents this year which lead to online debates about practicing responsibility when you are in a position of influence and authority.

Honesty is rare in the entertainment industry and it is hard to maintain a stance if you are part of the herd, but sometimes matters get out of hand when stars, in the garb of their straight-forward personalities, pass harsh and problematic comments. A recent case is musician Ali Azmat, who gave an interview to a legal online portal — Vakeel Online — where he talked about music and art being an essential part of the culture and identity of Pakistan. The interview was moderated by lawyer Ahmed Pansota, while another lawyer, Azhar Siddique, joined the session.

While discussing how music is a significant part of Pakistan’s identity, Ali shared how there was nothing in Pakistani culture that a teenage boy could relate to when growing up. “When someone brought an MTV tape, we grabbed it with both hands even if it was cultural invasion because our own society or culture wasn’t giving us anything similar [a pop icon]. In our childhood, there was a musical show ‘Tarannum’ that used to air in the evening in which Noor Jehan sang, dressed in a sari and wore huge earrings and over makeup. Humein us mayi se chirh charhti thy [we used to get irritated by that woman],” he said, later calling her “kofta [meatball]”.

“That culture was led on by jeans and guitar for quite sometime and then someone stood up and thought ‘how about we play an old Sufi song on guitar or use Allama Iqbal’s poetry to make a new product? [Junoon’s song]’ And then all these things that were meant to be counter culture became our pop culture,” Ali added.

While much has been written about the sexist and ageist remarks made by Ali Azmat, there is so much more in this interview which is outlandishly problematic. Ali might have said these offensive words citing that those were his thoughts as a child but there were many other subjects on which the opinions of both Ali and Azhar were truly bizarre.

Azhar Siddique expressed how gender roles are pre-defined and women are responsible for house work while men are not. He even went on to say “Maushray ma log hein jo aurat ko portray ghalat karte hein ke ye mazloom hein [there are elements in the society that portray women as the victims]”. He even digressed and talked about how women should dress appropriately.

That’s not all, Ali also shared that he has been molested many times by female fans when he went on to perform at events because he was the only man amongst those women. “Unhone wohi kiya jo us kurhi naal hua ha… this is the mob mentality [they did he same to me that was done to that girl],” he commented, talking about an incident where a girl was molested by the crowd. Can someone please tell him not to normalize criminal behavior, irrespective of the gender?

If the rampant cases of child molestation, sexual assault, child abuse and femicide are not strong enough to prove that women are suffering in Pakistan than what else do these “intellectuals and stars” need to wake up from the illusion that an equal amount of crime is meted out to men. It isn’t.

At one point, Lawyer Azhar Siddique said that he has issues with the vulgarity in the music or arts which are destroying our culture. He clearly pointed out that he remembers Chris DeBurgh’s Lady In Red but then he quoted some Punjabi lyrics, that according to him, are promoting an indecent narrative.

It was a discussion about the influence of state or constitution on the art produced in the country. Ahmed pointed out that the Articles 227, 19 and 31 of the constitution talk about conformity with the injunctions of Islam and right to freedom of speech and expression. They are put forward every time someone raises a question on the moral implications of content produced by artists. Azhar Siddique emphasized that he also wants regulations to ensure check and balance because “freedom of expression is allowed till it doesn’t affect the morality, decency, public order, or cause incitement within the society.”

The biggest problem with the interview was that people with rigid and problematic opinions sat together for a discussion that came to no conclusion. Oddly enough, the discussion on arts touched upon topics that were completely irrelevant, however, the opinions expressed were highly triggering. Though Ahmed Pansota interrupted and corrected both of them numerous times during the session, it was evident that both the guests were against certain ideas and didn’t budge. The gist of that discussion was that much of pop culture is a cultural invasion by the superpower (the US) that is imposing a school of thought involving moral degradation, drugs, gun violence, inappropriate messaging etc., on our youth to desensitize our minds and make corrupt values acceptable.

It cannot be completely dismissed that pop culture has a big influence on the youth, and has its repercussions in the longer run. It can be used as a tool to educate and entertain or confuse and corrupt, but there is also an individual responsibility to filter out the content for him/herself. Even Ali pointed out that he is entitled to reject certain ideas of foreign culture that he doesn’t find appropriate. Unfortunately, in the interview, all the obligation is directed towards state, constitution, authorities and regulatory bodies, which in turn results in censorships and bans.

Anyone who is aware of the Pakistani music scene in the 90s would remember how Junoon also faced bans from the government due to a song. And there is no denying the fact that Ali, along with his band members, had their own personas as rock stars, like western rock or pop stars in the world. He also admitted that they took the same western culture and infused local flavour in it. So, it is quite a contradiction to target western influences as “foreign agendas” when one has used them to their benefit as and when required.

Another pertinent question is the ground of morality, which as asked in the session, is different for different region, socio-economic backgrounds and school of thoughts residing in the country. We have a recent example of this ban culture where a thought-provoking drama like Dil Na Umeed Tou Nahi was deemed inappropriate by PEMRA and it sent notices to the channel as a result of complaints by citizens. So the question is, who will decide what is vulgarity and indecency? And will the same principle be applied to censoring the uncalled-for opinions of individuals on sensitive matters?

Here is the interview (which seems to be a censored and edited version):